Paul Foster - Mason
Interview by George Millar of Lionheart Radio in Alnwick, 4th July 2008
My name is Paul Foster – I’m a stone mason and I’m working here at Barter Books.
GM I’ve been slightly caught by surprise I’m looking at these perfectly smooth blocks of stone that have been delivered and it’s you who’s putting a rough pattern on the stone – is this the usual way?
Yes that is the way, a lot of the work is copying what is on site originally especially here where we are we’re trying to replicate some of the techniques used in the past. I think the station was built in 1895.
GM What’s your opinion of stonemasons of the past
The quality of the work is really good – it’s spot on - I’ve checked a lot of the arches with modern levels and it’s to within a millimetre. Very very accurate
GM That’s the Victorians for you?
Yes that’s right – it’s stood the test of time and beautiful to look at too.
GM You seem to have replicated the pattern well - what are you building here?
What we’re doing is putting in a new arch way to form a tea room for Barter Books and in doing so we have to make a new arch doorway and we’re trying to do justice to the building and replicating the arches that are already here so that entails getting the proportions and finishes as best we can as similar as possible to what is here,
GM Have the tools changed much in that time
I don’t think the tools have changed. The chisels we use are tungsten tipped. The older chisels were probably just a steel chisel that’s been tempered. Our mallets are nylon whereas the guys probably had a wooden mallet but other than that it’s pretty much the same. I mean, we do have Stihl saws to take large cuts of masonry off but working by hand is much the same really.
GM It’s work you obviously love then, judging by the quality of it
Well, it’s something you get a lot of satisfaction out of. The challenge for me is can we do it as good as the old guys and it’s what drives you on. To see whether you are really … to try and get there
GM This archway, is it a tricky job?
It’s quite tricky because, as we’ve already mentioned, the workmanship that’s been done here before is very exact and the joints are very very tight and very small which is a measure of how accurate the cutting was so you’ve just really got to take your time and get the cuts accurate and try and get the joints small
GM Do you use mortar on these things?
The mortar we’re using is a lime mortar, which is very similar to what was used in the past and we don’t use any cement. The reason for using the lime is it has some sort of movement qualities to it so it tends to move with any movement that’s in the building or any masonry you put up. It sort of grows with it.
GM So, you’d expect some of the work to settle?
The building will be settling all the time. All the time, it will be settling, very very fractions in that. If you used a cement, you would probably see the settlement in cracks because the cement goes rigid and it doesn’t allow for movement. That’s another reason for using the lime.
GM So, how long have you been a stonemason?
I’ve been doing this for about twenty-two years now.
GM What drew you into it?
I think it’s just looking at all the old buildings and just looking at the quality of them and how architectural they were really and how they’ve been there for lots of years and the quality was still there – it just doesn’t go away. You can go back to something you done ten / fifteen years ago and hopefully it’ll look weathered but it’ll still be as good and you’ll still be as happy with it as when you done it.
GM And did you do through any formal training when you started?
Well, when I left school we done a brickwork course but stone-wise I was lucky enough to work for a company form Warkworth called GJ Green where we were doing a big renovation project which entailed stonework and we were able to follow the older tradesmen who had been there for a while and just picked it up from them guys really
GM I suppose there’d be a modern apprenticeship in it now?
I think there is but I think you have to travel quite far – it’s Edinburgh I believe or York or somewhere like that and it’s quite an expensive course to just do stonework. We do it at more general building sort of, cover a wide spectrum.
GM do you do up and down the country, or are you more Northumberland based?
We’ve been lucky. We do go up and down, but we haven’t really been farther than Newcastle, Alnwick and local areas. We’ve been very lucky
GM Is there a particular style of stonework in this county, that you would identify as being typical of Northumberland?
Not so much, but there is a style you can identify with the station buildings. And especially the station buildings that are on the Alnwick to Cornhill line. They’re all rock faced, they all have chamfered coigns and certainly the stations in the Eglingham, Glanton, Carnewton area they’re all identical both in size and shape. The plans for them are all the same so we can take any component from any station and swap it with another one. And all the signal boxes buildings are all recognisable with the rock face finish and just the design of them really.
GM I suppose that goes for viaducts … ?
The bridges … Certainly the builders and architects that designed that you can identify it straight away
GM How does this archway compare in terms of scale of job? Do you go up to whole houses?
Oh yes, we do. We do barn conversions, everything.
GM Is this the only job you have on at the moment?
Oh no no. We’re actually on a three-week leave of absence … we’re doing a big barn conversion at Walton which is quite interesting … it’s being filmed for the television, for Grand Designs which is on Channel 4 so that’s another experience, being filmed and having your work monitored from start to finish … it’s quite exciting as well
GM So Kevin Mccloud has stuck his nose in?
He certainly has, we’ve been interviewed with him and we’ve been filmed lifting a window sill on with him and he’s talked to us about the stone and the processes as well so I’m looking forward to that coming on the television
GM Back to the arch here, where did the stone come from?
Well – usually I get my stone from Hutton Stone which is just past Berwick – but because we wanted to try and replicate the building so much we took a sample away and tried to get a good match in grain, in texture, workability, just to try and get it the same and that resulted in this stone being sourced from Scotch Corner. It’s actually a stone called Scotch Buff which is the most similar match we could find.
GM Quality wise, is it good building stone?
It’s pretty good – well, with all stone, when it comes out of the ground it’s a bit hit and miss, some of the grains are tight, some of the grains are quite open and it has got quite a cross-section in it but we’ve managed to work round them and expose the grains and they’ve worked quite well.
GM Have you ever exposed any fossils?
Not fossils as such but sometimes iron ore’s quite popular in stone and large clay pits and the odd fossil but it’s mainly of a shell or something like that and not exciting
GM No ammonites?
Not yet anyway
GM So, looking at your work there with the chisel and the mallet … to me, as a bystander, it looks like a work of art really, are you ever tempted to go down the art route?
Not as such. We have done a lot of cornice work and many layers of cornice involved – sort of layers which make a big huge thing happening but you’re sort of getting into the realms of carving and gargoyles and things like that are like a specialist art again - really a carver.
GM You were saying about being down at York?
We did, we took a trip down to York to the cathedral to see the masons at work there and it’s interesting in that each sort of band or section of masons will do their own thing. Like you have the masons that’ll do the coigns and the walling stone, and other ones that might do cornice-work or plinth-work and moving right along the line to the carving shop where we’ll do the gargoyles and ornamental features. Each band sort of does its own project.
GM It’s almost a production line?
It is really. I suppose, getting back to the station; it was a little bit like that here. You probably had the masons who just specialised in doing the walling stone, guys who were doing the coigns and the arches and the other features because there’s all sorts of interesting cornices and sailing courses and everything. Each group of masons probably had their own task in each project.
GM Masons like to leave their mark. Is yours to be discovered?
I’ve been asked to put on one. I think the work stands alone on itself to be honest. You do come across old masons’ marks from time to time going from signatures to just little figures. It’s interesting when you uncover them.
GM I suppose you can go back to the Roman ones as well?
I think it’s good if sometimes when they have the date on. Then you can age the work exactly.
GM Will that be going on here?
I might find a little corner for the date, something like that. I think Mary of Barter Books is keen to have one so she’s in charge.
GM So, to recap, Paul has been working recently on a house that features in Grand Designs, the Channel 4 self-build programme presented by Kevin McCloud.
A guy doing it on his own with just Richard and me helping him – he’s got an old mill from 1850 and he’s adding a new zinc and glass thing and that’s what makes the Grand Designs job really.
GM Is there a lot of stone in that?
There is a lot of stone in it but it’s the same story as here at Barter Books we’ve got to do the mill justice and try and get any new elevation we do in the same style.
GM What sort of price is that job?
In terms of stone it’s probably only about £12,000 worth of stone but I would think it’s at least a half a million plus project judging by the amount of technology in it – it’s one of those jobs that you’re always learning as you go integrating zinc and glass and steel with an old 1850s mill and how they operate together and how it will all look at the finish – you don’t really know until you see the end result.
GM Grand Designs is certainly an addictive programme.
It is because you can appreciate the struggles the people go – the guy we’re working for is more or less doing it for himself – it’s only been me and Richard that have been there for any length of time and as well as doing the masonry work we’ve been keeping an eye on everything else making sure that things keep ticking over and come together.
GM Everyone is sitting here in the middle of 2008 and worrying about the economy plunging ever southwards are you finding work hard to come by at the moment?
Well I’ve been very, very lucky in the years I’ve been doing it the work has sort come my way but obviously you can’t take anything for granted especially in this climate but you’ve just got to keep going. Hopefully things will A turn around and B we’ll get a steady supply of work.
Thanks to the help and cooperation of George Millar at Lionheart Radio, the original interviews, done on behalf of Barter Books, are broadcast every week, with the highlights added here online.